Curse

Kool Pajamas · Jun 16, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

For one thing people should play different professions. I see so many people that have only played 1 or 2 professoins. You will get a much better understanding of the game if you play them all.

actionjack · Jun 16, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Increase carry skills and level cap = NO.

But there is some good point there, such as adding more passive effect attributes. maybe have something like 2-3 passive attributes, that have no skill in there, which you could put points in (can be consider "Racial attributes", if does add new race)

Expanding on the OP. So pick on something generic, you would add something like Intellegent, Endurance, and Agality.

Points in Int will give you few more energy, and better spell casting effect.
Endur will give you more HP and def. Agality more criticl and dodge %. They won't have skills in there.

One might argue that this will make more cookie cutter build, as all Tanker will surely take Endur. However, remember, since attribute points are the same, you put more in one means you put less in other. Also this allow more flexible build, so if you want a more energy Tanker, put some into Int.

So yes, I do think OP has a good idea in adding more passive effect attributes to encourage more customization.
(I will add it to my idea index list too)

BahamutKaiser · Jun 17, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

I see that you cannot stand to face critisizm.... Well I wouldn't give way to what people say, unless they can bring proof, their unproven opinion doesn't count.

You say that "Unless Anet changes GW into another MMO copy, people will lose interest and leave GW", I say, the vast majority of people playing GW are here because this doesn't play like all those other MMOs, and changing it to one of those will lose more support than any other possible action.

There are alot of ways for them to renovate and improve the game without totaly betraying the exsisting mechanics, and favoring typical complex "attributes". Micro-developing the character statistics only makes the game complicated, it does nothing for character balance, and it doesn't make the game better, in actuality, it will likely make it worse. There is more than enough class diversity and originality because each class has totaly seperate kinds of armor available to them, and totaly unique Primary Attributes, aside from exclusive access to runes of their own attributes. Any more divergence would only decrease the opportunities classes have to make effective combinations with any class.

I came to GW from Final Fantasy XI, and they have secondary jobs as well, they have complicated player stats, and underscore the effectiveness of Secondary jobs so they only alter your primary job, with very little impact. Speaking on the behalf of direct experience with this sort of system, I say it sucks. FFXI has horrendous class balance and obsurd differences in class value, along with major issues like economic and overall gameplay weakness.

I will not return to FFXI unless SE redesigns the vast majority of gameplay systems, and there are thousands of people who were totaly dismayed by FFXI as well. The extreme popularity of FFXI and developed community relationships have spawn alot of hardcore followers of the series, and no matter how the game fails, SE has decided to stick with their game and cator to the successful fanbase, instead of change the system to allow gameplay and environments which more people can enjoy.

One of the major choking points of game sales is the extreme complexity of modern games. Just because you can make it extremely complex doesn't mean it is a good thing, you easily kill your market to simple pick up players, women, and old people. Hardcore gamers may appreciate complicated stats and functions, but in the end the only thing that really matters is that the gameplay is fun and the system is balanced. There is a reason Pacman and Mario sidescrolling games continue to be released for decades, because many people enjoy simple mechanics, and complexity closes the market to many gamers.

I had a lvl 60 Drg, among other jobs in the game, and I had (X) Str, (X) Vit, (X) Dex, (X), Agi, (X) Mind, (X) Int, and (X) Chm, and you know what it all added up to in the end?, I was locked into an undervalued and less effective Damage Dealer role, with a poor option as a specialty healer, and the class straight up sucked. FFXI is the pinnacle of poor game mechanics, not because it is the worst game I have ever played, but it is a sub average and I expected nothing but peerless excellence from the most popular RPG manufacture in the world. That game survives on fanatical support and popularity, the key gameplay elements are crap, with very little originality and even less enjoyability.

GW simply cuts out the crap and focuses on the gameplay, Character developement is intentionally limited in order to keep level (power) progressions short and focus the gameplay on actual gameplay and balance, not complicated figures. Health, Evasion, and Attack power are all wrapped up in Level, which is intentionally locked at a low max, Energy and Defense are unique to each class based on their selection of armor, Primary Attributes exsist on each class to ensure that they have a unique function, and Secondary attributes are available to other classes if they combine. Your actual skill power and other modifications are intentionally tied to Attributes so combination classes can empower and use skills from other classes effectively, instead of locking each classes effectiveness into their class type with the mild opporunity to variate with a class combination.

The current system of GW is peerless, it may not be the best "in your perspective", but it is peerless, and it is rather original, and many people enjoy it. Even if it was lesser then other gameplay elements, a good developer isn't going to drop their gameplay (the actual identity of the game) and change it into something else, they can sooner make another game which others will enjoy without destroying a game which many already enjoy. If a crappy game isn't going to change their mechanics because of player distress, then a great game certainly should not, and since many people, not just people, but reviewers agree that GW is not just good, but the best online RPG out, they aren't going to sell out to simular mechanics of a close competator, they will surely lose the fanbase they already have instead of keep people interested.

I love the idea of new ways to play GW, but none of them involve throwing out the current gameplay, I come up with ideas to add to the gameplay. Adding a Z axis an better hieght recognition allowing for more involving landscapes, adding climbing and swimming, Adding Sea Exploration on Moving (controllable) ships for new combat experiences, Even adding new kinds of characters outside of classes which have totaly seperate sets of attributes, mechanics, and do not have the ability to combine with other classes (specifically playable Dragon Characters). I have come up with some pretty radical ideas to improve the game, and it does need, and will improve. But proposing a game change isn't acceptable, they arn't going to throw out what we have and make something new, we will be lucky to get radical improvements and new game mechanics added onto what we already have, asking them to remove the current game mechanics and replace them isn't just far fetched, it is riduculous.

A successful game isn't going to drop it's gameplay and try something else, that is all there is too it. There may be plenty of people who dislike the gameplay, or simply want something better, but this is a successful game because it offers a gameplay which many enjoy, it is successful so people must like the way it is, and trying to drop what we have over some outragious interests isn't going to happen. We will be lucky to see radical improvements at best, hopefully Anet hasn't gotten the idea that they will drag out the same gameplay with continous rehashing, but replacing the game itself with new mechanics isn't an improvement, it is betrayal of the gameplay many already enjoy.

Your right, this thread should be closed, because no sane game manufacture will consider replacing their game mechanics, it is a rational and concrete conclusion proven by the history of successful online games. Even crappy online games have extreme disapproval from the hardcore fanbase for redeveloping their.... crappy game, redeveloping a great and peerless game is madness.

I liked Zelda games and I liked CounterStrike, and just the same as I would not approve of them trying to strip away one games strengths and replacing them for anothers, I wouldn't wish for GW to be stripped and refitted with WoW mechanics, it will only make the game worse.

Undivine · Jun 17, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I remember an interview with the developers on a site called Gaming Steve. In it they talked about how they admired the fact that people can shelf their game for a few months and come back to it later when a new chapter comes out or they just feel like playing it again.

No monthly fee isn't just a tempting alternative to MMORPGs; this game is actually designed more like an online variant of a single player game. ANet is not expecting people to fanatically stay with the game at all times, playing it every day of the year (unless you just want to keep yourself busy with PvP).

In games like WoW and EQ, one cannot technically "finish" the game. There is intentionally no end to it. In Guild Wars there is an end to it, and yes, this is intentional. ANet makes money off the initial purchase of the game, not people staying with it - also intentional. This is the direction they went with.

People often come for the PvE and stay for the PvP. So to keep the long term players, I doubt they would want to mess with anything that gives one person an unfair advantage over another in PvP.

I have played all those brilliant games that you mention (with the exception of Final Fantasy, at least, beyond the first one for the NES) and I understand where you're coming from. I am getting the same nostalgia over those good old games. There isn't anything wrong with putting Guild Wars down for a bit and coming back to it later.

Senketsou · Jun 18, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

I remember an interview with the developers on a site called Gaming Steve. In it they talked about how they admired the fact that people can shelf their game for a few months and come back to it later when a new chapter comes out or they just feel like playing it again.

No monthly fee isn't just a tempting alternative to MMORPGs; this game is actually designed more like an online variant of a single player game. ANet is not expecting people to fanatically stay with the game at all times, playing it every day of the year (unless you just want to keep yourself busy with PvP).

In games like WoW and EQ, one cannot technically "finish" the game. There is intentionally no end to it. In Guild Wars there is an end to it, and yes, this is intentional. ANet makes money off the initial purchase of the game, not people staying with it - also intentional. This is the direction they went with.

People often come for the PvE and stay for the PvP. So to keep the long term players, I doubt they would want to mess with anything that gives one person an unfair advantage over another in PvP.

I have played all those brilliant games that you mention (with the exception of Final Fantasy, at least, beyond the first one for the NES) and I understand where you're coming from. I am getting the same nostalgia over those good old games. There isn't anything wrong with putting Guild Wars down for a bit and coming back to it later.

That proves a very good point... However what happens when more and more people start puttin Guild Wars down? I quit playin it for five months till the expansion came out, so that point of yours is true... However after playing other games I can see that the diversity is somewhat lacking in Guild Wars. The game is awesome, all is well... However as you said, people come for Pve, and stay for PvP. When I left it was because PvP was overan with IWAY... It was everywhere, atleast 80% or more of the teams that went in were IWAY, Just frustrating... Anyway good point, just hopin to see Guild Wars get a bit more diversity over the next chapter?